On fic dealing with Asexuality
Mar. 27th, 2011 07:14 amThis is a hot topic in the rant post over on the kinkmeme, and I always find myself involved in the conversations. This is the rant that sort of sparked me today:
Yeah. It's angry, but that's what that post is for. I've repeated it here just for context. And I haven't read the fic in question (anyone know where it is? I'm curious), so I can't really comment on any of the specifics. But it does bring up one matter. John's point of view.
To be honest, I don't write John's POV because I know that I will get it so very wrong on this matter. I really don't know what he's thinking. I've lived with a sexual person long enough to work out reactions and how he'd work externally, but internally is totally different.
This. I'm finding that it seems like most of the people who at least leave comments on mine (not sure about drive-by readers, or the folks who leave kudos) seem to empathise with Sherlock, because they've been there, in his position. So far, I think I've had two commenters who not only don't see John as the bad guy, but are able to relate to his side (for the record, I think it's great that so many people are enjoying this series! I don't care whose side you're on; as long as you're still with me, it lets me know that I'm doing something right).
Demonising John is not what I'm setting out to do at all, though. The only time he gets tetchy is when Sherlock tells him that he doesn't want to have sex with him and/or he's not attracted to John. Sherlock doesn't realise that it HURTS to hear these things coming from the person who is supposed to love you.
I think where this whole thing goes a bit wrong is that it is really hard to not make the sexual partner look like the bad guy. Sexual issues are very hot right now, and some of them are quite sensitive. I think, even from John's POV, some situations might actually make him seem even worse. From his POV, you might miss the fact that even if Sherlock isn't into it physically, he still wants to do these things for John. There's definitely a lot of accidental dub-con/non-con potential if Sherlock has sex with John because he thinks it's what John wants. Personally, I don't see it as being either, but I'm also biased.
Take out Sherlock's internal dialogue and move it to John's POV, where all you get are Sherlock's actions without the thoughts guiding him, and there's the very real potential to get what appears, for all intents and purposes, to be John forcing himself on Sherlock. And sure, that may be exactly what it feels like to John sometimes.
Really, even though it's a topic I really enjoy, I don't think you can win either way. The only way to really do it without making either one seem like the bad guy is to go full on third person omniscient, and get into both of their heads. But I think in doing that, it might lessen the impact. I dunno. It's a tricky topic. I really don't know if it can be written realistically (read: without anyone's magically healing cock, or a libido that simply vanishes because of twu wuv) without making one of them look like the bad guy at least some of the time.
But think about it this way: you've got John trying to get his mack on. Let's assume, for the time being, that the relationship is new enough that they don't have any established rules. Say he starts trying to touch on Sherlock, who is largely unresponsive, because damnit! there are things happening on the internet, and they are interesting. John keeps touching, eventually Sherlock gives in, puts his laptop down, and just lies back and lets John do whatever he wants. He may feign interest at one point, depending on any number of variables. Depending on how into it he was able to convince himself that he really was, he might let John fuck him. More likely, he'd give John a very disinterested hand job, since disinterested sex is rather painful, and he may not be able to get aroused enough to fuck John. As soon as John's finished, Sherlock cleans his hand and goes right back to the laptop.
This is not a worst case scenario. This is fairly normal (in my experience). From the outside, it looks kind of bad. From Sherlock's point of view, you'd get a bit more insight as to why he gives in. There may be more behind his actions than just, 'John is horny and I want him to stop bothering me.' Maybe it's been a while since they did anything at all, and Sherlock is just realising this (when you don't care, you may not notice that it's been ten days since the last time you took your shirt off for him). Just because he's not into it doesn't mean he doesn't still want to do it.
From John's point of view, you don't get any of that. You get Sherlock being distant and grudgingly giving in. Without that, this situation goes right back to uncomfortable and riddled with questions of consent. Anything about Sherlock wanting to do this has the potential to come off as rationalising or projection, which will just make things look even worse. Again, you can get into both of their heads, which may work just fine for a PWP, but for a plot piece, I'm not sure how well that would work.
Dear person writing 'John said bad things about asexuality so now he has a GUILT'
I fucking hate your sanctimonious after school special of a story.
The prompt could have been done realistically or in a way that would explore both points of view, and move toward understanding. Instead you just beat people over the head with 'IF YOU DON'T AUTOMATICALLY GET IT YOU'RE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD'
I hope your fic spontaneously combusts in a pool of toxic tripe.
Full thread.
Yeah. It's angry, but that's what that post is for. I've repeated it here just for context. And I haven't read the fic in question (anyone know where it is? I'm curious), so I can't really comment on any of the specifics. But it does bring up one matter. John's point of view.
To be honest, I don't write John's POV because I know that I will get it so very wrong on this matter. I really don't know what he's thinking. I've lived with a sexual person long enough to work out reactions and how he'd work externally, but internally is totally different.
Asexual fic is for asexuals.
This. I'm finding that it seems like most of the people who at least leave comments on mine (not sure about drive-by readers, or the folks who leave kudos) seem to empathise with Sherlock, because they've been there, in his position. So far, I think I've had two commenters who not only don't see John as the bad guy, but are able to relate to his side (for the record, I think it's great that so many people are enjoying this series! I don't care whose side you're on; as long as you're still with me, it lets me know that I'm doing something right).
Demonising John is not what I'm setting out to do at all, though. The only time he gets tetchy is when Sherlock tells him that he doesn't want to have sex with him and/or he's not attracted to John. Sherlock doesn't realise that it HURTS to hear these things coming from the person who is supposed to love you.
I think where this whole thing goes a bit wrong is that it is really hard to not make the sexual partner look like the bad guy. Sexual issues are very hot right now, and some of them are quite sensitive. I think, even from John's POV, some situations might actually make him seem even worse. From his POV, you might miss the fact that even if Sherlock isn't into it physically, he still wants to do these things for John. There's definitely a lot of accidental dub-con/non-con potential if Sherlock has sex with John because he thinks it's what John wants. Personally, I don't see it as being either, but I'm also biased.
Take out Sherlock's internal dialogue and move it to John's POV, where all you get are Sherlock's actions without the thoughts guiding him, and there's the very real potential to get what appears, for all intents and purposes, to be John forcing himself on Sherlock. And sure, that may be exactly what it feels like to John sometimes.
Really, even though it's a topic I really enjoy, I don't think you can win either way. The only way to really do it without making either one seem like the bad guy is to go full on third person omniscient, and get into both of their heads. But I think in doing that, it might lessen the impact. I dunno. It's a tricky topic. I really don't know if it can be written realistically (read: without anyone's magically healing cock, or a libido that simply vanishes because of twu wuv) without making one of them look like the bad guy at least some of the time.
But think about it this way: you've got John trying to get his mack on. Let's assume, for the time being, that the relationship is new enough that they don't have any established rules. Say he starts trying to touch on Sherlock, who is largely unresponsive, because damnit! there are things happening on the internet, and they are interesting. John keeps touching, eventually Sherlock gives in, puts his laptop down, and just lies back and lets John do whatever he wants. He may feign interest at one point, depending on any number of variables. Depending on how into it he was able to convince himself that he really was, he might let John fuck him. More likely, he'd give John a very disinterested hand job, since disinterested sex is rather painful, and he may not be able to get aroused enough to fuck John. As soon as John's finished, Sherlock cleans his hand and goes right back to the laptop.
This is not a worst case scenario. This is fairly normal (in my experience). From the outside, it looks kind of bad. From Sherlock's point of view, you'd get a bit more insight as to why he gives in. There may be more behind his actions than just, 'John is horny and I want him to stop bothering me.' Maybe it's been a while since they did anything at all, and Sherlock is just realising this (when you don't care, you may not notice that it's been ten days since the last time you took your shirt off for him). Just because he's not into it doesn't mean he doesn't still want to do it.
From John's point of view, you don't get any of that. You get Sherlock being distant and grudgingly giving in. Without that, this situation goes right back to uncomfortable and riddled with questions of consent. Anything about Sherlock wanting to do this has the potential to come off as rationalising or projection, which will just make things look even worse. Again, you can get into both of their heads, which may work just fine for a PWP, but for a plot piece, I'm not sure how well that would work.